SPEAKER_00 0:00

So many people think you have to choose between a thriving BDSM dynamic and the responsibilities of real life. Not true. I'm Alessandra from Dom Sub Living, and in today's episode, I'm sharing an interview with Harlow and Adira, a couple in my All Access Pass program. They've mastered balancing marriage, kids, health issues, and their Dom Sub roles. If you've ever felt overwhelmed, this is exactly what you need to hear. In this interview, they share their biggest mindset shifts and a key action step anyone can take to improve their Dom Sub relationship. Let's jump in and hear their story. I know you'll be inspired. Here's Harlow and Adira. Welcome to the Dom Sub Living Podcast. So welcome, Harlow and Adira. It's so nice to have you here.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Thank you so much for having us.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Yeah. We're stoked to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Yeah, we're definitely stoked. So why don't you just start off by giving us an overview of your journey and how you got started with the Dom sub lifestyle?

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Yeah, sure. I'll take away the the first run at this. Um for us as a couple, um it just kind of came as a curiosity um about different lifestyles. Um Adira uh has always uh been bi curious, has always had an alternative lifestyle as far as the sexuality goes. Um myself, I um I was never a vanilla individual. Even you know, in my early younger teen years of of discovering my own sexuality, um, I was I was never into the norm. Um I was always interested in like more of the depth and the the erotic nature of the human body. So um even for me, like as you know, losing my virginity, if you will, um it wasn't just a normal thing. It was very thought out, it was very calculated. I was more concerned with, you know, what I could provide my partner and then what I would get out of that experience rather than just, you know, oh my gosh, I'm so nervous. Um, so for us, I think it just kind of came, I guess you could say naturally. Um, but what really I think kicked it off was, you know, her her being by, um, you know, I wanted to make sure she had that freedom to be able to explore that even in our relationship. And we were friends for years before we even became roommates, and then from roommates to to to an actual union, a partnership, a marriage. Um, but I always wanted to make sure she maintained that. So it was we were never, we were never normal. We just didn't know where we fit in, right? When you're when you're going through that, you just don't know. You're like, where do I fit in? Are you are you this kind of a couple? Are you that kind of a couple? Um, so I think we were we both of us were always kinky. We just didn't know how to identify it.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

And normal is boring. Who wants to be normal? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah. You know, I would I like stories to tell. That's important.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, definitely. Um, and so I will ask another question. I'll start with you again, Harlow. So, what were some of the the mindset hurdles that you had to overcome on your journey as a DOM?

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Uh, insecurity, number one. Um, that that was really tough uh for me. I've all my relationships have been um very long, they've had tenure. Um, I was never heavy into the dating scene. So uh being in committed rail relationships all the time, they were at least a year or more long. Um there was a level of security that I always had in that. Um, and going into the BDSM and Kink lifestyle, you are kind of putting yourself out there to potentially um have multiple partners. You're also, you know, you're putting yourself out there and being vulnerable to things that um you might not be comfortable with. And um for a big one for me was am I am I doing it right? Am I good at this? Is there such a thing as good at this? So I think insecurity was was a big one um for me, a mindset to to um overcome. And then just being uh confident in what I wanted and that it was okay, and that because I had the consent of my partner, I could then you know explore what I actually wanted and what I needed. Uh and that's hard, that that's a that's a hard mindset to overcome and to say, hey, you can actually get what you want, you can take what you want, things can be the way you want them to be. Um, we're not, I don't think we're we're conditioned that way as in the society to to feel like it's okay to go out and ask and get what you want these days. So it um yeah, that's it. Those are the big ones for me.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

And then what about you, Adira? What were some of the mindset hurdles you had uh overcome on your submissive journey?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Well, for me, the biggest was anxieties. I probably could group like almost every single mindset hurdle I had into anxiety, worrying about not being good enough, worrying about, you know, my age or how I looked. Um pretty much. Yeah, I was just worrying all the time, I think, in the beginning. It was very distracting, whether it was about BDSM specific stuff or just life in general. Um, and my other mindset hurdle I had to overcome was having MS, you know, just dealing with symptoms daily and also not knowing if new symptoms were just gonna appear, you know, kind of made it challenging in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yeah, definitely. And so there may be people, you know, watching or listening that don't know a lot about MS. Would you be willing just to like give a little overview of like what it is and and like how it it you know shows up for you?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Yeah, um, MS is an autoimmune disorder where your immune system attacks your brain and it causes a lot of like nervous nervous system symptoms, that was hard to say, um, which can really vary greatly for me. It's um dizziness, fatigue, uh numbness, tingling, balance, problems, trouble, cognitive, yeah, trouble word finding and things like that. So I've been dealing with it for oh my gosh. Well, since 2007 I've been diagnosed. Yeah. Definitely had it before then though. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yeah. No, thank for sharing that. I'm sure, I'm sure it is been, you know, very challenging, you know, for both of you, even for you know, Harlow having to adapt to that and know how to show up for you as your DOM. So yeah, I just really appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing that.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Well, yeah, no, absolutely. That's part of that's part of growth. I think that and when you get into to this lifestyle or any alternative lifestyle, if if you want to classify them as that, um you know, you do have to get to a place where you you know who you are and and you do start to take more of a look inward. You know, I think it's uh it's awesome. And it helps you, it does help you to grow and share and and then identify these things. Um, so it it's more than just, hey, you know, I'm gonna lifestyle where I get to have kinky sex and do all these wonderful things. Like there's a lot of growth to it, you know, and working with her in MS, it's the cognitive stuff gets tricky because you know, we talk about safe, sane, and consensual. So I have to be very aware, you know, when when she's trying to get out words and and communicate her needs that you know, I'm understanding and speaking her language so that I know that yes, she's actually coming from the right mind. Um, you know, safe words are important, safe motions are important because sometimes it's not easy to get out, you know, cognitively for her, the word she's trying to find. So it's tricky, but it's fun. I I definitely enjoy it, provides a challenge for me, and and I love challenges.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Yeah, I can I can see that how you know it it does like keep you on your toes and keep you, you know, having to adapt. So I can I can definitely see that. So see, Adira, you know, you're a big asset for him.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

So but yeah, but he um it really made sense for us to kind of do a daddy dumb little girl um relationship just because he always has had my best interest at heart, even if I didn't want to see it at first. Um, but this has really helped me um you know just become more aware and appreciative.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Yeah, we can add that to the challenges and mindset hurdles. Definitely definitely kicking and screaming sometimes for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Adira can't be a brat, can she?

SPEAKER_03 9:30

No. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Well, Adira, can maybe you share some of your best tips for mastering your mindset as a sub?

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yes. Um, okay, so I know everyone says it, but um, and you were right, journaling and meditation um is actually really, really helpful. Um, you know, for me, it was just finding like the right app to use and the right program to kind of make meditation make sense to me. Um, and it'll probably be a lifelong, you know, thing skill that I'm growing, but it actually really does help um with that focus and not getting distracted by the outside uh, you know, noise um in what you're doing. Um so I do meditate and journal daily, and I use my notepad to remind me. Um, and then I make sure to consume any like BDSM stuff daily, podcasts, articles, videos, the QA um videos that you and Jay do, and on sub workbooks, and online training courses, um, which is why I love your website because taking your Don Sub training course um was really, really helpful for us and getting the all access pass. It just kind of gives me the ability to engage in these things um every day. I feel like it was really essential for me in um like getting a better understanding of myself and my submission.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

I would echo that for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

So what would you say are some of your best tips?

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Well, I uh this is gonna sound funny, and everybody will pick up on this, I'm sure, if they haven't already. I laugh and I joke. I love fun and humor in life, but this stuff I I absolutely take it seriously as a heart attack. Um I I I did a pro I was a performer um since the age of six. I did theater in high school, community theater. Um, you know, I had a career in music and performance um for quite a while. And so that is where all of my extrovertness went. Um outside of that, I was very insecure. I was very much an introvert at home. Um, if I wasn't at a festival or if I wasn't performing as a DJ, I was at home. Like that was it. So it didn't help that I, you know, the the security parts and the insecurities that I had to to to be that way, because it was like you'd go from one thing to another, right? Um, all of these people, crowds of, you know, 15,000, sometimes up to 60,000 that are just there cheering, and then you go home and it's dead quiet. There's nobody. And it was hard for me. And so I never really shared any of this about myself. I kept my kinky side extremely quiet, even from Adeira for the longest time. Um, you know, I was very nervous to even try certain positions in the bedroom because I was like, I don't want her to think I'm a freak or I'm too freaky or any of those things. Um, even though I knew in the back of my mind she was could handle it, and and she was way more open-minded and free and um, you know, willing uh than I was, even. And I think it was just me getting in my own way. And and believe it or not, um, you know, the information, the education, learning about it, seeing other folks and meeting other people, that helped a ton when we first started dipping our toes into it for me. And we were in a small community at the time, so it was a little bit easier um to find folks, but honestly, like finding an online community like yours, um, being able to actually have a coursed out, you know, process and and teaching and a plan and accountability and all of these things that I swore off social media, I swore off interacting with anyone outside of our home for the longest time. And so to get on this community and be able to share and actually start to talk about my experiences and the things that I've gone through. Um, that was huge. So I think for me, the the thing that really got me over this and and able to do this was the support from others and and a place like Dom Sub living where I felt safe to talk about it and safe to be me. Um but it takes a daily thing, it's a daily, a daily routine. I have to talk every morning. You know, I have my my mantras I say to myself. I sit on the other edge of the bed when I wake up and I take a few minutes before I do anything, just kind of sit there and thought and meditate. Um, I do float therapy, love it. Anyone that is ever curious about it, it's amazing. Sensory deprivations, that's scary for some folks, but I I love it. You sit in a water tank that's filled with water that is that has a high salt content, so you literally float um and it's pitch black. And I love that. Um, it helps me um, you know, work things out in my mind. It's like my meditative space. So yeah, but talking to people, yeah. Just find your routine, meditate. Um I could go on for hours.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

So, so both of you kind of mentioned, you know, like community and meeting others. And I know a lot of us hold back from that because we kind of think like, oh, everyone's going to be leaps and bounds above me and you know, be a Christian gray or have this, you know, huge dungeon, you know. So what has been your experience though, like meeting real people in the community?

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Well, yeah, first time we we dipped our toes into this, um I uh I had some friends that, you know, she's had friends, I had friends that that I wouldn't say were in the community, but knew folks that would. Um, I got to do a show uh with another performer friend of mine um in Oregon, actually, at the Crystal Ballroom, and it was a BDSM show, and they do it every year. And it's three levels in this giant ballroom. And I mean, I saw things I did not know could be done, I did not know existed. I just it like really, it just kind of almost was like it jarred me into going, wait a minute, like this, and there were so many, it was so many diverse people that I instantly I felt comfortable. Some of the folks I was with, I could you could just see it was like a deer in headlights, some of them, some of the other performers that we were with. This was the first time they'd experienced something like that. So for me, that was an it was almost like a shock therapy, and it helped me to not feel as bad. And I was actually more open after that to really entertain the ideas um, you know, of of this lifestyle. She actually is the one that had brought it to me. Um because I was just way too scared. I was way too nervous to bring it to her. Um how about you? I this is I'm curious to hear what she has to say. Like, yeah, like what what yeah, what do you yeah?

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Like it's amazing to see how normal everyone is. Like they're just people, people from all different walks of life, you know, different sexualities, different um nationalities, even, you know, all different ages. Um, and it was just cool to see if they're just people, you know. I think, like you were saying, you know, you go into this worrying, you know, that you're not, you know, young or perfect looking, you don't have all the things, um, and just to see and talk to people that, you know, you just could meet at the coffee shop and you know, share with each other. Um, and everybody's really open and they're in different places um on their journey. And I feel like it's a really good space to ask questions, um, but you're gonna get like a wide variety of answers, but also sometimes the same one, which lets you know that it probably works. So yeah, yeah. That's what I've felt about it.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I know, you know, people listening to this too are are just gonna be, you know, blown away too, that it's like, you know, you have a Star Trek, you know, background, and you know, Anadeira has health issues, and yeah, you know, you guys have kids, so you know, it's just normal people, you know, practicing BDSM. So yeah, it can be anyone you meet on the street and you never know.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

You don't. You really, really don't.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

It's been amazing.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

I think it's getting more traction, I think, as you see more folks share, um, join communities like this one, um, and get out there and and and see that it is normal folks. I think it's starting to grow. Um in the beginning, when we were dipping our toes in, like I I signed up for Fat Life and and and tried to, I was like, I'm gonna go all in and I got this. I can do this. This is easy. I got it. Okay, I'm ready to go. And it was just overwhelming, right? It was so much. And there's people, like you said, that are so far ahead that have been doing this for years, and you feel like you can't measure up to them, right? You're like, oh my gosh, wait, my profile, I don't have that much to put in my fat life profile. I don't have that much to put in this profile here or that profile there. Um, and and that's tough. But if you really just kind of step back and realize that like these people have built this, they've taken time to get to that point, and you got to start somewhere. Um, it's the you know, it's the slow, smooth, smooth is fast, the you know, fail forward, try, do something. You don't, you know, it doesn't, you don't like I always say, you don't have to boil the ocean. And that was the biggest thing for me is to see that there were normal people that weren't doing that. Um that that helped me out a lot.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah, yeah, I could see that. So um Harlow, I'll ask you first. So what would you say is like the key action step everyone can take to improve their DOM sub dynamic?

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Number one, um, if well, I'll I'll start with a couple speak to it kind of from a couple um side and and and dynamics since that's what we are, and and we are now proudly practicing, you know, 24-7 TPE. Um you have to, you gotta first agree to contract. Like you gotta do it. Like contract is so critical, I think, because you are putting thoughts on the paper and you're saying, yes, I'm agreeing to what I'm seeing in front of me, right? And we even did a fun little ritual, or we you know, we sat with each other, and you know, and I gave her the caller, we kind of almost did it like our own little mini, you know, revowing ceremony. You have to do something like that to really solidify it for yourself. So I think the key action step is to um, you know, lay out your wants and needs, get them agreed upon, get the rules, get the expectations, get that contract, sign it and take that first step. That's huge. Um, I think that's that's a big one. And the second, if you don't have a partner, um, you know, I think the key action step there is to get involved in some sort of BDSM community if if you're truly interested in it, so that you can start to surround yourself with people that are knowledgeable. And that can provide you the information that you're going to need to be able to make an informed decision on finding a partner. And who knows? I mean, that that might change the whole game for you. Maybe, you know, that just doing that that key step of starting to talk to people and get involved maybe helps you find a partner that was was maybe apprehensive themselves. And you can be the person that, you know, brings them into the world and and and changes their life. So even if you're a sub, that doesn't matter. Like, you know, subs can find DOMs and say, hey, you know, this person, they kind of have a Dom personality and they seem like a Dom. And maybe they're maybe they're nervous about letting that out. And you can enable them. So if you don't have a partner, get involved in the community. Get out there, get around like-minded individuals. Um, find your tribe. Um if you're a couple, just do the contract, sit down, make the agreement, just do it. You can you can work on it later. You know, you don't have to, it doesn't have to be ironclad out of the gate. You know what I mean? It's gonna change. Like it's gonna change.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Yeah, but that's funny because like whenever I'm I'm coaching couples, and that's usually my first question is, well, do you have a contract? And they're like, Well, no, we thought that was kind of silly. And I'm like, okay, this would fix like 99% of the issues I have.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

We're humans. We we know, I mean, they say that, you know, you can try to take notes in your mind, or but as soon as you start writing things down and you commit to it's different.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

It makes it more real, and yeah, the commitment just becomes there. So yeah, definitely those are those are some great tips. So, how about you, Adira? So, what would you say is the key action step that everyone can take to improve their Dom sub dynamics?

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Something to so I can see my notes. I was gonna go just like deer and headlights all just um, even though I worked on this for like a couple of times.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

I always I'll have my what is you know, you do my little torture and poke in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Um well, I would say for couples who are mostly just talking about it and haven't started, um, you know, they can't seem to move past that. You just have to start, kind of like you were saying, you know, there's never gonna be a magical perfect moment to begin. Um, you just gotta pick a couple things, keep it easy to start with. You can add in more as you go. Um, and then I think it's nice to look back and go, oh my gosh, you know, this many months ago, you know, we were doing only this, but then you can feel like proud of yourself as a couple for how much you've grown your dynamic. Um and I think for those people who are kind of already on the journey, communication and consistency are key. Um, there's all kinds of resources to make sure you stay consistent and keep on track with all your rules and rituals and also open and honest communication. So kind of always know where each other's at and you can you know resolve things before they like actually become a big problem. Um, communication's been huge for us. I'm still getting way better at it. Um, but once we actually started like talking about it, our dynamic became really successful.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Bachelor in communications. So there you go.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

I like to learn about it. I wasn't very good at putting it into uh practice. Practice, no. It was nice on paper, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yeah, for sure. I always say like the difference between a BDSM relationship and a vanilla relationship is just more talking.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

You're actually talking about the things that are up here in your head.

unknown 27:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

It's a whole lot of talking, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

More now and way better than we ever have. I feel like for me, this was um like a step I really needed to become a better communicator, better at receiving what he was telling me and better at expressing my needs and wants as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. You know, because a lot of times when we think about communication, we just think of the skill of like talking and getting what we want to say across. But you're totally right. It's about listening to and you know, hearing what they have to say and what they want. So it it goes both ways. So I like that you brought that out. Um, and I know you're both really active in the Dom Sub Living community online. Um, and I really appreciate that. Everyone loves you there. So is it okay if people reach out to you and connect with you there?

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Absolutely. Uh caveat, I'm a talker as you haven't noticed. I I I can write novels, but I can also keep it short and concise if that's what's needed. But please, yeah, reach out um with questions. Um our journey is definitely one that you know we could talk about, you know, for a while. Um, I could do breakout sessions on on just our struggles alone and some of the things that we've gone through that that were pretty intense. I mean, there it was really touch and go uh for a while there with us. Um, and it's you know, there's there's a lot to unpack, you know, everyone has a story and and and now that we're in this place and comfortable, you know, with sharing it and and knowing that we're part of a community that is that is accepting, you know, to who we are and and the lifestyle that we lead, I would say please, yes, reach out. I'm not always the best at initiating conversation, you know, over the the digital mediums. Um, but I will always respond to that. That's just my thing. I I always respond.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Thank you. I appreciate that. And I know I know so many people are gonna be inspired by you, Adira, too. So I'm sure you're gonna get a lot of messages and a lot of questions, a lot of other people dealing with health issues too, and just it's hard being a sub. So just on all that too.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

So um people struggle with health things that are kind of um invisible. Um, they affect you a lot, even though other people might not see it. So yeah, anytime I'm always open to answer questions and talk. I'm also not great at initiating, but I love the yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

There's a lot secrets. Can't can't give it all away on on the leave you on a cliffhanger.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah. I actually had one very important question though, but I was gonna ask. I was gonna ask, what is your favorite Star Trek series?

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Oh my gosh. You can go ahead and go first.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Oh no, I don't want to disappoint anyone out there. Well, I really love two of them, actually. Um obviously Captain Picard.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

You like the Picard series.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

And okay, well, a lot of people might hate on me because I like Star Trek Discovery.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

She does.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

I do I do like it. Um, so those are probably my two.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Next generation, hands down. No questions asked. Like next Picard, right? Uh well, yeah, that's his, but there's the Picard series, and then there's the next generation is where he is meant next generation. Yes. So hands down, that is my favorite series. And the main reason is that um I think that is that's the series that fundamentally changed how people looked at Star Trek as uh a show, as a culture, um, as a sci-fi movement. Um, the original series was amazing, and what they did at that time in in and in in that era, that age for the for for folks was huge. You know, they pushed boundaries when it came to you know diversity and relationships. And I mean, they were on the forefront, you know, they had a female, you know, they had Uhuru, who was female, and she's a crew member and she's on the bridge, and you know, that those are big things that they that they pushed. But next generation, like, I mean, it attacked social issues, it they covered so many things in a small window. Like people would think that next generation is like 15, 20 seasons long, and it's not, it's like seven. Yeah, it's short, and they did so much in a short period of time that it's my favorite. And yeah, and I mean, Q. What can you do?

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Q is just yeah, yeah, that's definitely um the OG. That's my favorite is uh TNG. Um Jay's too, you know. We both like we have a game where like we'll start uh a next generation episode and like we try to race to see who can figure out which episode it is.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Just by the beginning of it. But he really likes Discovery, though, so he'll be happy that you said that, Adira. Um, but my the one I've been liking right now is Strange New Worlds. I really like that one.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Isn't it cool what they did with Pike and the crew? And like it's it's pretty impressive. I was I was impressed.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Yes, that was awesome. Well, thank you for humoring me. Oh I'm sure we have a lot of other Trekkie fans that are watching and listening, but uh Star Trek anime, you name it.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

We're we're nerds.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Well, if anyone watches Discovery, they know where I chose my name from.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Yes, as well. Yes, yes, yes. That was uh very impactful.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Wasn't always my name.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Wasn't always a Dira. No, but now it but now it is legally. Yes, yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

So you were giving people all kinds of wonderful things they can ask us about.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Yes, a lot of tidbits, yes. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, well, for everyone who's watching, be sure to re- uh remember all of their great tips that they shared today and their action steps so that way you can start putting these strategies into place today. But Harlow and Adira, thank you so much for being here today and for sharing all of this incredible information so freely, so openly, um, and just sharing all about your journey. And I know it's gonna help a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Well, you're welcome. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

It's been an honor.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Thank you. It's uh yeah, shocked. It went by so fast, but that's what you know we were having fun. But yeah, it was it was actually very humbling to be a part of this. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Wow. I hope you enjoyed that interview with my All Access Pass students, Harlow and Adira. A huge thank you to them. But if you want to reach out and say hi to them, they are inside our online community. And you can check out our all access pass at domsubliving.com/slash all access. Now, all of the links and resources will be in the description. But I'm really in awe of their story and seeing their progress. So hopefully it sparked you to take action. And I can't wait to see what the future holds for you. Make sure to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. But until next time, keep embracing your power and pleasure through Dom Sublim.