SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Doms of Living podcast. Can you be a feminist and call your partner daddy? How do you balance BDSM with kids? And what do people get wrong about power exchange? Well, a while back, I was a guest on Auntie Vice's podcast, Fat Chicks on Top, and we had an amazing conversation about BDSM beyond the bedroom, behavior modification, and the surprising psychology behind kink. She asked fantastic questions, and I'm so excited to share that interview with you today. If you love real, unfiltered discussions on kink, definitely check out her podcast, Fat Chicks on Top. But for now, let's listen in on our conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Thank you for joining us on the show.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Yes, I'm so happy to be here. I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

I discovered you, like so many people probably discovered you, looking for kink resources online. And you have an amazing site, domsubliving.com. What was the origin story of that site?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah, my origin story, it's kind of interesting. Um, I was in kink and BDSM for a long time, you know, just kind of like fast-forwarding through a lot of the stuff. Yeah, so I'm I'm married. Me and my husband were into kink. We started connecting with the BDS7 community, um, really like going all in on it. And at the time, I was really wanting to be a blogger. Um, I have a degree in journalism, and so I was really wanting to blog. So this is kind of like sad to say, but so I started with a beauty blog. And so I was doing makeup tutorials and things like that, but I just wasn't passionate about it. And so I talked to my husband, who's my dom, and I was just saying, you know, I really want to have a blog, but I'm just not passionate about this. And he said, Why don't you write about BDSM? And I was like, you can't write about BDSM, like you can't do that. But you know, after talking to him about it, I was like, Yeah, I I I think I can. And so it just started out with a few articles. It really took off, and now we have training courses and a lot of fun things. So, so yeah, that's my origin story in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Like so many folks, you started by practicing BDSM at home in private before you got connected with the wire community, and that's what the vast majority of people do, right? There's not everybody goes to big events and dungeons and all of that. How did you go about having those initial conversations of I'm kind of into this, are you kind of into that? Because these are not things we're taught how to do.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah, well, I have to say that I'm pretty lucky that me and my husband have like a really open conversation, you know, open relationship about, you know, communication. And so, like I said, you know, from the very beginning, we were always kinky. And it was just kind of like, you know, me saying, like, what if I called you daddy and things like that. How we like kind of made the transition to more like formal BDSM was I was kind of just researching things online and because we were doing all the bondage, the SM, things like that. And I came across like like DS, like lifestyle outside the bedroom. And so it just like everything clicked. Like I thought, like, like this doesn't just have to be bedroom, like we can live this way outside the bedroom. And like, I'm a hardcore feminist, and so like the thought of it was also like, well, that's kind of wrong, you know, having him create rules for me and punishments, and that that just seems so wrong. But at the same time, it's also like what our relationship really needed. We were, you know, constantly butting heads and things like that, mostly because I was wanting more, you know, to be more controlled, and he was wanting to control more. So that's when like we started like formally getting into BDSM. It wasn't just like, oh, this, you know, kinky thing we do in the bedroom. Like, we were gonna take this seriously. So we, you know, dived all in. And then that's when we started, you know, going to more formal classes and dungeons and things like that, and trying to get as educated as possible.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

So you bring up something really critical, is that you're feminist, you have strong beliefs on the equality of women, and you call your dominant daddy. There are people who are really into that and people who get really squinchy around that. How'd you land on it and why is that a comfortable term for you?

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Yeah, I'll be totally open and honest that, you know, I didn't have like the greatest father figure growing up. And so, um, and he actually died when I was 13. So like there's a lot of trauma around that, you know, always wanting that daddy, you know, father figure. And so it just felt natural. And and like you said, not everyone is in it, into it, and I totally respect that. Some people are probably listening to this and cringing right now and saying how gross that is. But we are consenting adults, and you know, we confine it to our relationship and you know what we do, but it just it fits so naturally. And we actually have kids too. And so a lot of times people will ask us, like, how do you do BDSM and like DS outside of the bedroom, you know, when you have kids? And you know, they hear me, you know, call him daddy all the time. Like, you know, it's not sexual or anything, it's just like, hey daddy, can you grab that? Because he's the daddy of the family, you know, and so it, you know, it works for us, but again, like I know it's not for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Well, and I get it not being sexualized, especially around kids, because growing up, my paternal grandparents, my grandmother called my grandfather daddy. And I never thought anything of it until I started discovering kink. And I thought, there might be another layer, but there might not, right? I I didn't know that part of their relationship. But yeah, it could around a kid, it can seem totally normalized that that's what you call them. So you talked to you know, both in your writing, and you mentioned it here. You created a contract and you actually offer classes now on contract writing. What goes into a BDSM contract in general? Um, and is it the 50 shades of gray you had to sit there in your business suits and negotiate?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Well, it can be if that's what you your kink is, you know, for some people that is. But um, yeah, and that's usually the one thing I talk about because that's what people know. You know, a lot of people find me because they they watch Fifty Shades of Gray, they've read 50 Shades of Grey, and the first thing they want to do is create a contract. So I acknowledge that that, like, hey, you may be here because you know, you watch that, I'm not gonna shame you. But, you know, for some people, maybe they do want something formal like that, you know, it can make it more sexy. And a contract can be whatever you want, really, but I would say it would need some basic things. So um I like to say that you list like the roles of each person and what that entails. So if someone is the dominant, well, what does being the dominant mean? You know, is it bedroom only? Is it outside the bedroom? You know, um, if they're submissive, is there, you know, certain areas that you know are off limits and things like that. And then obviously the limits, hard and soft, um, things they will and won't do or or maybe do, and then, you know, safe words are, you know, a mess too. But really, you can get as detailed you want. You can have like a list of every single like kink or sex act that you want and do kind of like a yes, no, maybe list. You can even have when the contract begins, when it ends. Some people just like kind of have like a note in their phone and they will just add to it as time goes on. Other people like to print it out and have it again something formal, which is kind of nice. Like I always say it's a good idea to kind of look back at it at least, you know, like maybe every quarter or once a year. And it's it's kind of like you know, looking back at you know, fond memories, but also just seeing if anything needs to change or, you know, because we're all growing and evolving, and you know what we thought we wanted in the beginning isn't always what we want now. So I would say those are kind of you know some of the basics, but um, yeah, like you know, there's no like right or wrong way to do a contract because it's your contract.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

For you, what are some of the things that have surprised you as they've changed as you've gone through this journey?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

I think uh like it surprised myself how much of a masochist I am. Like I didn't like, you know, realize how much I liked pain. But I think what really blew me away is just like understanding like the psychology of pain and the psychology of BDSM and just how like how much I I needed it, you know. If you know, one thing it starts out as as a kink, but and then it becomes kind of like a relationship dynamic. But then when you start thinking like how you really need this as a as a person. And so, like, yes, I am a full-time submissive to my Dom, but like even when he's not around, like I still am a sub. And you know, that's something I take to heart and you know, try to be the best version of myself. Yeah, that that's just really surprised me and and just how much like it does draw you closer to your partner, and because there's so much communication, and I think that's what a lot of like vanilla people don't get is like they think it's just the ropes and the change and the chains, and that's all we're doing all the time. But it's like, no, it's like lots and lots of talk, you know. So talking, you know, a lot. Um, you know, in the beginning, we also did a lot of therapy too, and and that was something I was really surprised of how like many kink-friendly therapists there are out there, which I think is such a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

How did you go about finding kink-friendly therapists?

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Well, I know like there's um the NCSF um directory, but um, you know, we just it's hard to find ones that also match your insurance and things like that. So what I did, and like what I tell my students is like just tell them from the very beginning, take the band-aid off. You know, it's gonna be an awkward conversation. Um, but just say, you know, hey, like me and my partner were kinky, we're into BDSM, and that's what we did. We said, you know, we're in a DOM sub relationship. This is what it means, this is what it means for us, this is what we, you know, you know, it's and assure them, like it's all consensual. We're safe. This is something I've agreed to. We've seen it helped our relationship. And the funny thing is, we had this one therapist in the beginning who later told us, he said, I wish I could tell like all my clients to try BDSM because he's like, it would like solve like 99% of their problems.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Well, and I mean that's not totally wrong because we do talk so much more in a good kink relationship. Yeah. So as you're discovering this in your own journey, at what point did you feel confident enough to go out and start teaching?

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Well, so we were going to a lot of classes, a lot of events, and then just people started asking us questions. Just like the interesting thing is when people were really interested about how we were able to do this with kids. That seemed like the thing that people wanted to know the most about, or just like how we were able to juggle this with um, you know, my husband working and things like that and having this this lifestyle. And, you know, I'm a I used to be like a preschool teacher, so like I like to teach anyways. And so just, you know, being comfortable with teaching in in that area. And so since my, you know, I'm the sub and I have a Dom, you know, he does a lot of the the technical learning too. And so, you know, during scenes with him, I'm learning a lot too, and he's communicating with me. But yeah, it was just, you know, it started off small, and it was just like, you know, again, people asking for advice or asking for tips. And then, and then once I created the blog, you know, then it wasn't so much, you know, just friends or, you know, people in the local kink community. It was just, you know, people from everywhere, you know. So then it started really taking off.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

And with I'm not gonna ask you to give all your class material away or anything because people can go and find those and pay for your expertise. But it does come up, and it's come up with a number of folks we have on the show, is when you have kids, how do you navigate those relationships other than using an honorific that's not going to be recognized as anything other than you know, just calling them by a nickname? How else do you navigate that around your children?

SPEAKER_00 15:14

I would say for us, like on the outside, our relationship just looks very like almost traditional. But the the thing that we always communicate to our kids is that we communicated and decided on these roles. And it doesn't, um my husband is a man, and so we we tell them that, you know, this doesn't have to be, you know, the man in this role, the the woman in this role, you know, it's it's what you want and what you feel is feels right, you know. So they just see, you know, I I mean, this is like this in the vanilla vanilla world too. Like you have these rituals that like nobody picks up on, you know, nobody's watching, you know, but just little things like I don't eat until my dom eats. Um, you know, I make his breakfast in the morning for him. Um and a lot of times, so um again, you know, I'll put kind of like a trigger warning on some of these things too, because I know some people come from really, you know, abusive childhoods and a lot of abusive marriages where these things are real. So I want to address that too. But, you know, one thing, because the kids have restrictions on their phones. And so, you know, I told my Dom that like I was having a hard time with screen time, like an Instagram and you know, always wanting to be on it. So I asked him, I said, can you put restrictions on my phone? And so the the kids know like that I have restrictions, but they know why is because like we had this conversation that I was, you know, wanting to cut back on my my screen time, you know, and it's like adults, you know, vanilla adults do stuff like that too. You know, vanilla adults have life coaches and things like that. It's just how you have that conversation, I think.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Bring up a couple of things I want to go over. One is you're in kind of traditional gender roles in a marriage. And I love 1950s kink. Oh my god, make me iron your work shirts and polish the silver, and I am a happy, happy girl. Uh, but how did you come to square that with your own feminism? Because so much, especially you and I were probably raised during second wave where it's like the women must be in the work world and we must do everything.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's definitely, I would say it's it's even still a struggle sometimes. So it's like I don't want to say, like, oh, I've overcome it. It's still a struggle sometimes. And again, just knowing that I I chose this. So, like, you know, and that's like that for everything. Like, even the, you know, the abortion issues, you know, I had two children and I chose to have those two children, and you know, but I could still be for abortion rights, you know. So it's it's it's just, you know, such a delicate thing to navigate, but knowing that this is something I chose and it's working for me. And if it's ever stops working, then I have the power to end it too. But um, yeah, I'm definitely I have two boys and my husband, so I'm the only woman. So believe me, I get in my on my soapbox a lot and talk about issues. And, you know, like we're all trying to smash the patriarchy in my house, and I am I'm getting my men involved. So yeah. But it's definitely an ongoing thing that you have to reconcile with yourself and how you present to the world because you know you have to be cognizant that on the outside you do look like this stereotypical relationship. And to make sure that people in in, you know, even you know, when you're going shopping and, you know, doing running errands, that you know, just people know that you're an ally, you know, that you're supportive and things like that. So yeah, it's definitely a balance.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I find it to be kind of tricky to navigate to, especially presenting to the outside, because I know the psychology of everything and all of the negotiations that went into this, yeah, nobody else does. The other thing you mentioned is using the DS dynamic to help with behavior modification. And a lot of people are discovering that when you're teaching about that, how do you let people know how to what are flags for abuse and control versus healthy behavior modification in a DS relationship?

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Well, I'm a big ad that's like a really good question. And I'm a big advocate for having like a weekly check-in with your partner where both partners can kind of talk freely and things like that. So I think if you're having a check-in and, you know, one of you brings up, like, you know, hey, I'm working on this one thing and I could really use some support. Can we talk about it? And then you bring in the behavior modifications, then it's like it's done in the proper way. And then the next week, then you revisit it. You know, are those behavior modifications working? Do you need them to be more strict? Do you need them to be less strict, you know? And that's when you can talk about punishments and rewards, and then, you know, the following week, then talk about it some more. So I think when it's done just like on the fly, you know, this behavior modification, this rule, this punishment, kind of in the heat of the moment, just on a whim. I think that's, and especially like if the submissive is not consenting to that, obviously. But um, you know, if they're 100% on board, you know, but that doesn't mean that the submissive has to be the one always bringing it up. You know, a lot of times the Dom should, you know, be the one saying, like, hey, I noticed this habit that you have, or, you know, because the Dom is supposed to train their sub to kind of be that version that they want them to be. But again, it's around this conversation where the Dom wants the sub's input and you check in.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Do you ever do it where you, as the submissive, help with behavior modification for a dominant?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

I do, but it's like in a different slant. So I would say it's more like being the Dom's assistant, kind of like a secretary, and so you can kind of make it that sexy vibe to it too. But um, yeah, definitely. My my Dom has ADHD, so he struggles with, you know, being attentive, you know, remembering things and stuff like that. So definitely, you know, if he tells me like, hey, I'm really trying to work on this behavior, like, you know, can you do X, Y, and Z for me? Then, you know, yes, that's my Dom is telling me a need that he has, and I can definitely help with that. You know, I think the difference is, you know, obviously I'm not gonna say, you know, and if you don't do it, you're gonna get a punishment, you know. I I would like to say that sometimes. But yeah, so it just has like a different like slant to it. But um, yeah, we're a partnership. And so um, you know, it and that's what the, you know, it's a dynamic, and that's why it's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Well, and I know that's why me, as well as a number of people who've been on the show, really like it, is because it's an explicit dynamic. Whereas so much of traditional vanilla relationships, this stuff goes unspoken until there's a problem. So with DS, it gets out there. You've brought up punishment a couple of times. For you, what do punishments look like? Because there's this idea that, you know, okay, so I'm a brat and I will do shit to annoy my dominant until I get a spanking. So that's clearly not a punishment. I'm clearly asking for it.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

It's hard. So um, so yes, I love pretty though. Like it does have its limit. Like, I think I will like it, but then once I'm in the heat of it, I'm like, okay, no, I change it. Sometimes it'll be something like a spanking, but it will just be like the severity, you know, will be at the top level, you know, because that's you know, as a masochist, and I think as a woman, you know women have higher thresholds of pain, I think, you know, so um I think there's that too. But um usually the most like effective pen punishment for me is usually like taking away a privilege. And so that could be like you know taking away my phone or my laptop or you know not wearing makeup or um trying to think it's like I know he's gonna listen to this later so I don't want to give him any but um but oh and like something and that's what I really need is you know a punishment like that you know to go to bed. Another one that is sometimes like controversial with people I know is cutting off communication. And I know that can be come across as like almost abusive to some people but that was like actually something we worked with a therapist on and it's almost more like a timeout. And so like he'll say you know I'm not gonna talk to you for like an hour. And so that gives you know him a break and but also you know it's a punishment for me because I'm wanting to talk to him obviously this is not in a time where I really really needed him again it's like as a punishment that I'm acting in such a bright way that it's it's not even fun anymore. It's not you know it's like real, you know, I'm I'm really acting out but I what I tell people you know is if this is an effective relate or effective punishment that that works for you, that's fine. But it has to have boundaries and so Adam should never just be like well I'm not gonna talk to you and walk away it's like there has to be an end time. So whether that's 10 minutes, a half an hour, an hour, so the submissive knows like okay I'm gonna get to talk again. But that can be really effective for me because I like to talk I and especially you know if we're in the the heat of a discussion you know I like to say my opinion you know that's you know the feminist starts getting coming out of me and I like to talk and then he's just well you know if it it gets too heated then yeah he'll have that punishment but but I know that like you know we'll come back in an hour and you know we can communicate then.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

And I want to underscore putting a time limit on it especially if one of your partners is anxious because if you live with anxiety and there's no end time that's true torture for some people.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Yeah yeah and definitely if there's an emergency and you need a safe word and you know and say you know whatever your safe word is like I legitimately cannot wait that until the time is over like I legitimately need to talk right now. Yeah so um again having those boundaries around it um can be done like in a really safe way if that form of punishment works for you. Who were some of your biggest influences as you started to develop a much more extensive DS dynamic well so like everybody um Evie Lupine she was I mean you probably knew I was gonna say that before I even said that but yeah she she is amazing the submissive guide she was really good um those were kind of mirroring the styles that you know we have I'm from the Bay Area so you know Wicked grounds is you know always big and just you know we have the Folsom Street fair too so just seeing the different varieties of kink and because you can like pick and choose what works for you. And that's what I really really like. And so that's why I tell people don't just learn from one person learn from a variety um because you can't you do have the freedom to pick and choose and you may like something someone does in their dynamic and another person's dynamic you may be like that doesn't really mesh with what I think but I I like how they do this. And and so yeah definitely learning from as many people as possible really helps us in the beginning of our journey.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

So even though the promotion's over I want to talk about it because you do it every year. How much of learning from different people came into creating the kink bundle and if you want to introduce that to our listeners who may not know about it or just heard my ads for it, explain the kink bundle and what's it about because it'll happen again next year and it's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Yeah so and I um I feel bad because we were supposed to do this podcast before but I was sick. It seems like every big launch I do I get like sick as a dog. So it's just like you know I I always know that's gonna happen. But um so yeah the kink bundle how I got the idea for it is I like to follow what like successful vanilla businesses do and how they do it. And I really like bringing some of that professionalism into the kink world. And so really hard we've done three so far the first one was really hard because again no one had seen anything like this before in the kink community. So I did get some pushback it was hard getting convincing people first of all that I wasn't just trying to like steal their stuff because so let me back up. So what the kink bundle is it's a collection of different either ebooks, full blown courses, trainings, um, some software just like everything that you see your like your favorite creators selling like they will put this in the the kink bundle and it's uh you know this year it was 2000 over $2,000 worth of stuff but people can get it for $99. And so like and it goes like hotcakes during that week I mean you can imagine. So yeah so in the beginning it was it was hard to convince people like I wasn't just trying to like steal their stuff or whatever. Like I I had to keep like reiterating this is like to benefit you because it does it hugely benefits the creators because not only are they getting like a high commission from the kink bundle is when people are are you know these hundreds of people are signing up for each individual thing then they're getting on you know their email list and getting exposed to them and things like that. So I forget how many creators we had the first year. I think we only had like eight or nine and then it got bigger the second year and and this year was the biggest we had in total we had 33 creators and it was it was amazing. So it was so much fun and and just everybody loved it. So yeah if you were fortunate enough to if you're listening to this and you were fortunate enough to to grab the kink bundle yes definitely keep redeeming those offers um because yeah those those creators worked really hard on it and and I couldn't do this without the creators I mean they they are amazing and they you know they put uh they're they're really really valuable stuff in there and so yeah I'm definitely privileged to be able to coordinate that every year.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Well and for our listeners who missed it this year or who got it but may want to get it next year because it's always different stuff that goes into it is there a way for them to sign up for a notification when you launch it next year or do you just have to follow your favorite creators?

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Probably just follow your favorite creators but if you want to get like on the official you know wait list you can go to domiving.com slash sign up um sign up one word but um yeah and you'll get you'll get notified but um yeah it's it you know it's called the kink bundle and it's just got it like kind of like this smorgashborg of kink and it and it it's also different and you know different softwares too like the obedience app put in I think a whole year access. So um yeah it's definitely high-end stuff and so and hopefully each year it'll get bigger and bigger.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah and you had amazing creators in this one a lot of people who I've already bought their classes or workbooks it was like really great to be involved with it and I love the idea that it gives such different perspectives because there's no one right way to do kink.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

There's lots of ways to screw it up but there's also no one true way right um and I I do like that yeah and I really really wanted to feature also minority creators black creators and be and because the kink bundle gives these creators such like a bigger platform you know because I mean you could not go on like Instagram or Twitter and not hear about the king bundle that we it was just everywhere. So this really gives you know people who maybe wouldn't have gotten such a big enough voice out there to have a bigger voice and and and people who you know are following people like me and Evie and you know other white girls who don't know about these amazing creators that are out there that are black. And so I really love you know having that diversity in the bundle too.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

And you had two of my very favorites you had both sunny Megatron and Luna Batatas who I shout out all the time and their work and their classes and I I love those two two women they're amazing at what they do.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

So for you you you write a blog you teach classes what's your favorite topic to talk about um I talk about so much but I think I do like to talk about like DS outside the bedroom because I think that's just so nuanced and it's different for everybody. So I mean it because the interesting thing is like I don't really get a lot of questions from people about like how do I do like a single column tie or how do I do wax bondage or wax play. I get people asking like how do I do BDSM when I have kids or like how do me and my wife incorporate DS into our marriage so it's like those more like complicated questions and that I really really like. And so those are the things that like I just love talking about.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

And where do you see the gaps in DS education right now? You're out there you're educating there's a huge group of us now compared to even 10 years ago who are out and offering classes are do you see gaps in what's being taught or who's teaching that we need to fill so I would like to see this is just me but I would like to see more men who are DOMs teaching out there.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Someone actually asked me this on Instagram like why is it mostly women or or you know femme people that seem to be teaching and I really thought hard for that in um hard about that and I think there is I mean not that they're not out there I there's just so many reasons for that I think one I mean like let's the elephant in the room is that you know a lot of these men educators you know the skeletons will come out of the closet and we'll find that they were not doing a lot of good stuff. And so um that's part of it. Part of it is you know some of these men are you know they have full-time jobs like I would love my my own Dom my own husband to be more you know involved in DOMs of living but I we need our health care. So it's like someone has to work outside the home you know so um I think that's it. I think women sometimes are land more in the teaching roles you know that's just we're always the helper and you know things like that. So so I would like to see more of a balance. I think that would be one thing that is missing but whether or not that will be fixed. But I mean that you know you're you're asking a lot that's the patriarchy that you know so I don't know if if we'll ever see you know a more balance anytime soon. Because a lot of times people will say to me you know who are a man like how can I ever learn from you you're a sub or you know you're a woman and it's I have a lot of things to say about that. But some of the basic skills are the same and when it comes to communication just because of the way ad fab people are raised we're taught a lot more around communication than people are who are assigned male at birth like and yeah and you're right that so much of it is just women are naturally directed into teaching as an option for a career because we we struggle with getting enough men to teach in K-12 and then you know yeah exactly yeah yeah and then I don't know if you ever come across this but sometimes I'll get people you know who say if I really cared about the community that I wouldn't sell my courses I would give them out for free. And I think again that comes from like women are just supposed to be giving and you know I'm not supposed to be professional and then and it's like I have you know dozens and dozens of free articles on my blog. You know I have tons of free stuff. But yeah I think it is kind of just women are just supposed to just you know hand out things and not ask for anything out of return and just do it out of the goodness of their heart.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

You know we get that a lot especially around teaching at large conferences. I'm sure you've experienced it like myself and a number of the other teachers is hey can you come teach at this conference but we've got no airfare and no lodging budget so you'll pay for that and we may give you $500 for the weekend when you've sunk two grand into coming out here. Yeah right and you know people don't want to pay what it costs to put on some of these better conferences but part of it is if you want professionalism if you want people who've spent hundreds of hours creating the content that you're gonna get there is a value to it and I think we should pay people like yeah definitely and that's like with the kink bundle like I wanted a really high commission like and I've had a few contributors like say like I've never gotten this high of a percentage of commission on something and so you know that just warms my heart because you know I want these contribu uh these people who are contributing to the bundle I want them to feel supported and valued because they are and they deserve it. Exactly exactly and you know I do think so much of what so many of us who blog and write and stuff how much of that is free content. Um and I don't think people understand what goes into that you're a journalist by training you have professional training in writing in doing the research and it's not like you're just sitting down and spouting off like some incel in a basement there's value to knowledge so you should pay for it.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

So let's talk about the the blog and the site a a little bit um so there's so much on your site so you do have the blog you have trainings you have lots of stuff so you want to kind of go over some of the things you offer yeah so we have the blog it's free at domsubliving.com there's you know tons of articles there's articles for dom subs which is beginners advanced you know you know just kink if you want that too um different quizzes and videos so that's all free then we do have um step-by-step online courses we even have courses that are as low as nine dollars too so like we try to really you know be aware that everybody is you know at different income levels so we want to support that too and then we um we do have like a mastermind program that's um you know includes all of our courses and you get you know community access as well we have you know a um a really neat um community of students and clients and then we also give in that mastermind like monthly um coaching calls and things like that and then we do the kink bundle every year and then in the beginning of this year I tried something new I ran a summit and that was really successful too. So again working with you know other creators in the community and it was like a five day event putting you know together you know they were putting together talks every day and we had a community aspect as well um so that was a lot of fun too so that was our first time running that it was the Dom Sub dynamics summit and it was a like a virtual summit and that went really well so I think we're we're gonna keep having that every year too and definitely definitely having the kink bundle every year. It's it's so much fun. You've been doing this for a while what have you noticed in changes in the kink community since the time you got active in it to now so definitely like it goes through waves and there was a huge wave obviously with 50 shades of gray then there you know so I think 50 shades of gray brought out you know a lot of like middle aged vanilla people who are you know maybe in a long-term relationship wanting to explore kink and then I think the COVID pandemic I think there was a wave with that and I think I think that brought a lot of non-monogamy into the mix. I think you know people are in lockdown they're with their one partner they want to start exploring non-monogamy so then then it started becoming like well how do I do DS and be polyamorous and how do I incorporate that so I think there was that wave and I think now too with um you know gender issues and transgenderism I think we're seeing a wave with that too of people just being more open um about not fitting into you know a stereotypical stereotypical role even in the kink community I think just having a more open mind and having more open discussions and and you know every decade we have like a new generation you know that's becoming adults and they start becoming interested in kink and they kind of bring this new blood into it too so that's that's always fun to seeing all the insights that that they bring. What are you looking forward to in the next couple of months I don't know if I had said this but um so we are new we were in the Bay Area and we were in the Bay Area we moved like almost exactly a year ago so we are now in Southern California and so since it's been almost a year so like we wanted to really spend that year um getting us situation getting the kids situated with schools and friends and the house needed a lot of remodeling so now that we're kind of at this year mark and I was going to say the pandemic's really over but now it seems like it's coming back but um we are really wanting to explore more the the kink scene down here in in SoCal. And so my husband my Dom he already has a little bit he's he's way more social than me. So he's you know already gone to you know the munches and the clubs and all that and has been meeting people in the community um but so I really you know since we're at that year mark I'm like okay so now I feel like my family's situated my kids are situated now I can take more of the time so you know I'm back on FET life and you know looking at all the events got some events I'm gonna be going to so yeah I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Welcome back and enjoy the Southern California community.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

It's a ton of fun um yeah yeah and especially because we have like the LA groups and the San Diego and so it's just uh it's so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

If our listeners want to find your site if they want to connect with you if they want to take classes get your resources plug all the things yes so it's Domsubliving all one word and so you can find me at domsubliving.com I'm that you um that name on all the socials Twitter Instagram Facebook everything but yeah so if you go to the main website you can see all of the courses there we have a lot of free content um and so yeah you can go to domsubliving.com slash free get our free resource library um and access all of the things there but um yeah um check us out and say hi and listeners we'll have all of those links for you they are a wonderful resource I use them all the time strongly recommend them so check them out we'll have those links on the show notes as well as everything else thank you so much for being here it's been great to finally chat with you face to face what an incredible conversation I had such a great time chatting with Auntie Vice and if you enjoyed this episode I highly recommend checking out her work. You can find more of her insightful unfiltered discussions on kink, gender and sexuality over at fatchicksontop.com and explore all of her amazing Writing, research, and resources at antivice.com. And of course, don't forget to subscribe to her podcast, Fat Chicks on Top, wherever you listen to podcasts. I'll have all of the links in the episode description, so be sure to check them out. But thanks for listening, and until next time, keep embracing your power and pleasure through Dom Subliving.