SPEAKER_00 0:00

Do you ever notice how everyone talks about BDSM like it's either fantasy or taboo? But almost no one talks about what it's really like to live in. That's exactly what Deborah and I get into in this episode. Deborah Kennett is the host of the Better Sex Podcast, and she creates this incredible space for honest and unfiltered conversations about intimacy and relationships. I got to be a guest on her show, and we sat down to talk about what it actually means to live a DS lifestyle day to day, the real communication, the self-work, and even how it all fits around kids and jobs and normal life. And yes, we talk about all the kinky things too. So if you've ever wondered what's beyond the fantasy of how real people actually make the BDSM lifestyle work, this one's for you. You can check out Deborah at DeborahCat.com. But for now, listen in and enjoy our conversation. Welcome to the Dom Sub Living podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Today we are diving into the world of my guest, Alessandra Madison. She is the creator of Dom Sub Living. Through online training and mentorship, she helps new and experienced Doms and subs live the BDSM lifestyle to the fullest. So I first became aware of her through her summit, Dom Sub Living Summit, which was really quite brilliant and had just so many good speakers, some great topics, and really centered around the BDSM lifestyle. And I'm so delighted that she's joining me here today. She's a new and exciting uh colleague connection and said, Love it, you know, can you go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about how you got here?

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Yeah, I'm well, first of all, I'm just so excited to be here. Um, I'm so glad that you enjoyed the summit. Um, we had so much fun at that summit, and so we're just so glad that, you know, so many people were able to take advantage of it. But um, as you said, my name is Alessandra Madison. I run Dob some DomSubliving.com. And how I got here, um, it's kind of a long story, but I'll try to make it short. But basically, my husband and I were kinky like our whole relationship, like ever since we got married and were dating, we were always kinky. But we would do BDSM things, but not really call it BDSM or know that it was BDSM. But we started having a lot of issues in our relationship too. But we started seeing how, like, having, you know, the hot makeup sex and, you know, being all kinky afterwards, how how that really actually helped things, but it wasn't getting to like the real root of the issues. So, long story short, we did a lot of therapy and counseling, but we really just saw how um tapping into those dominant and submissive roles and tinking kink out of the bedroom really benefited our lives and made our marriage a whole lot better. So we lived in San Francisco at the time. That's like the kink capital of the world. So we fully took advantage of everything we can get our hands on there and just um really embraced the lifestyle, embrace the community. And then so it just became that more and more people were asking us questions. We started teaching more, and so it just made sense to start the website, and now it's just help helping thousands of people, and we have you know courses and events, and so it just really took off from there. Beautiful, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

So I'm curious if you would say a little bit more about like when you say BDSM lifestyle, what what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 4:10

So there's different ways to look at it. So um, so everyone kind of knows what BDSM is. Like it's like so BDSM is kink, and it's technically, you know, bondage and discipline, dominance and submission, and sadomasochism, and kink is just anything really that's outside of the vanilla spectrum, that like normal spectrum. So when we talk about it being a lifestyle, it's more being intentional about it and making it like a way of life and trying to put it into all aspects of our lives. So even though, like obviously, we're not doing kink all the time, we're not doing kink when we're at the grocery store and things like that, but it's still a part of our mindset and our identity. And so that's kind of how we like to look at it, that we're, you know, just making it more like holistic, basically.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Beautiful. Thank you. So hearing you say that, I'm imagining you're talking about so the dynamics, the power dynamics of Dom sub, perhaps the ritual that comes with the protocols of BDSN, and you know, the the uh accountability aspect of you know, BDSM and the Dom sub experience. Um is that accurate?

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, but I will say that, you know, because like you said, it is a power exchange, but sometimes where people get hung up is well, they think like, well, I can't live the lifestyle because I don't have a partner, or you know, it's you know, they're single and they they or you know, a lot of times, you know, women will sometimes read 50 shades of gray and they think they they need to find their perfect Christian gray. But I really, you know, tell people that the lifestyle is about you and what you want out of it. So, you know, try to not make it so dependent on, you know, either having a partner or just having, you know, the best partner there is, but really just making it about your own identity. So like, you know, I'm a submissive and so I try to be the best submissive I can be, you know, the best version of myself. So, you know, even though I have a partner, I'm still doing things to the best of my ability. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah, when you when I hear you say that, um a million years ago, I heard Melena say something about um uh protecting the property and taking really good care of it. And what I've always taken away from that, and like you said, is being that best version of yourself, you know, being the the most fit person, you know, person that I can be within my own, within my own body. And, you know, how do I bring the disciplines that somebody else might, you know, in uh from the outside and have that happen from the inside out.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

And so uh I really appreciate that that yeah, because that's that's totally a good way to look at it is like, you know, I am my dom's property, and so I do, you know, try to take care of myself the best of my ability, you know, to respect my body, to nourish my body and do all those things, but also not just for him, but just you know, honoring myself too, and and and wanting to be that best version of myself. And he does the same thing too, you know, he wants to be the best version of himself as a dominant. So, you know, having a partner or not, that he is still dominant in his own life. And I think that's something, you know, a lot of dominants forget is, you know, they want a submissive, you know, so they can tell them what to do sexually and you know, make them their slave and do all these things, and they forget that they need to be dominant over themselves first and have, you know, that self-discipline and that self-control. And I think that's where a lot of relationships fall apart, honestly, is because you know, each person isn't doing their part to make that solid foundation first.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it it can be tricky when we get into situations where um, well, actually, before we go there, I I'd love it if you could talk a little bit about the difference between, say, a 24-7 relationship and maybe a play partner relationship or a play relationship.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Yeah, so you know, whatever relationship you're in, there's typically, you know, those dominant submissive roles. And so they can even look like a master slave role, even things like, you know, a caregiver little role. So that's something like a daddy dom or a little girl, um, you know, or even a brat and a brat tamer. So there's different ways you can label it because I know a lot of times people, you know, want to get the right labels right for them. But basically, when we talk about, you know, part-time or bedroom only, that is just, you know, doing kink and doing those dynamics in a scene. So and even a scene doesn't have to involve sex, but it's just confining it to that, you know, BDSM scene. So, but when we go 24-7 or take it out of the bedroom, so then it becomes part of our everyday life. So even things like eating a meal can have, you know, a power dynamic there where, you know, maybe the submissive serves the meal and waits for their partner to start eating before they eat. They can wear things like, you know, a collar, like I'm wearing my my collar now that I wear, you know, outside the bedroom. And so it's just ways of taking it into your daily life, you know, having, you know, rules and protocols. So when you're doing a scene, you may have a role where like the submissive, you know, can't touch the dominant without permission. But then outside the bedroom, you can have different roles too. Like the submissive has to, you know, like text their dominant, you know, within a certain time frame, or make sure they, you know, eat a certain, you know, requirement of meals. You know, it can get as like creative and you know, intricate as, you know, as is agreed upon, basically. And so, you know, that's why it's always good to have a contract too. So, you know, we always want to make sure that everything is consenting, because on the surface, you know, a lot of these things look abusive even. So we want to make sure that this is all negotiated. And so whether you're bedroom only, you're 24-7, that you know, all of this is agreed upon. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yeah, so um I'm curious, like if you were to think about um some of the some of the things that you might want to include in, like some of the things that definitely need to be included in in a contract or a a negotiation or a conversation about having um about having a a really solid um BDSM relationship, what would you what would you want to include?

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Yeah, so I like what you said that, you know, whether it's a contract, you know, just a negotiation or just even a conversation, that you do need to, you know, cover your bases. And so those would be things like so safe words. So, you know, when things get too intense or your, you know, you or your partner is at their limit, you know, what's a word you can use um to to signal um to signal that. And then some other things are you want to have like your hard and soft limits. So these are things like things that you won't do, or things that you maybe might do under certain conditions, um, just maybe other precautions. So if you have any like allergies, like if you're allergic to latex or things like that, you you need to have a conversation about that, obviously. Um, and then just kind of too, like what are some like overall expectations you have for either that scene or that relationship and and where you want it to go to. Um, and and just kind of like what your titles you'd like to be. Like I said, if you want master slave or you know, daddy dom, little girl. You know, some people are very particular about their titles and titles they they won't use or words they won't use. And so um, those are all things you you need to talk about, you know, if punishments are on the table, you know, what does that involve? So um, yeah, I mean, a contract or or even if you're discussing it, it can be as detailed and cover as much as you want, or you know, just be like a little simple outline. So you can definitely make it your own.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yeah. I I just um when you were talking, I was thinking about the, you know, the the words that you don't want to hear as well as the words that you do want to hear. And it because those kinds of things can really shut down the the um the play as well. It's like, oh, so we're gonna go in this dick this direction, and there's these few things that are gonna take me out.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yeah, well, definitely, because I mean, you know, people have, you know, traumas too. So, you know, there may be things that, you know, can actually trigger people and you know, put them in, you know, a mental high health crisis even. So, you know, we we do really have to be careful, you know. So, yeah, some things are just like turnoffs, but for some other things, you know, it can be, you know, really, really important and sometimes even dangerous if it crosses that line.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

I'm curious how um how you guys started teaching together and like what were some of the some of the classes that you taught?

SPEAKER_00 16:11

So mostly um, again, it was just like people informally asking us because we have two, we have two kids, so two young boys, and that seemed the thing that like people were the most curious about was how do you do this when you have children, you know, especially being 24-7. And so that's kind of what we started teaching um about the most. You know, again, we were in San Francisco, and so they have these things called munches, which is like an informal BDSM event. And so, you know, we would teach there and just talk to other people about how we were able to do this, even though, you know, we had kids at the time who were, you know, toddler, you know, age, and um, you know, then they grew up to be tweens and teens, but you know, how have we been able to do this with them in the house? Um, and then, you know, it's a little hard teaching skills as the submissive. So, you know, that was always like more my my Dom's area, but um when we got the blog going, because I just loved, I just loved to write. And so it was really nice to to have an outlet for that. But that's when like people really started asking questions and just wanting more information. And I was teaching the basics. And it was interesting. I I sent out a survey to my audience and asking them what their biggest struggle was in regards to living the BDSM lifestyle. And I thought I would get questions like, oh, I want to learn rope bondage, and or you know, I want to, you know, do a scene and you know, have it be really great. But like the majority of the questions were all, you know, how do I live this lifestyle when I have kids? How do I live this lifestyle when I'm busy with a job or when I have health issues? How do I even find a partner? So it really surprised me that like what people were wondering was not so much the the skills and the intricacies of it, but a lot of the the mindset stuff stuff with it too. So I thought that was just really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Yeah, one of the things that I've also noticed is like the difference between what I have as my fantasy and what I what what's you know what the day-to-day piece of of being a 24-7 submissive can look like. Um and I know in my own life what really sort of came into play was the fact that like the difference, you know, the difference in income um played a big part in in how could we play together, how you know, because all of that conditioning around what it's supposed to look like, uh I'm money is is huge.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

So, you know, I would say, you know, money is like up there with sex in terms of you know the mindset issues behind it and you know, the amount of hang-ups we have around things, you know, and the taboo, you know, just like we can't talk about sex, like we can't talk about money, you know, you can't ask someone like how much money do you make? And things like, you know, it's like it's so funny how um yeah, money just kind of seeps into all aspects of our lives and and and even into the bedroom and our our you know BDSM relationships, even so yeah, I could totally see that.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Yeah, and especially when we have this like cultural fantasy of the Dom, who's like the bazillionaire who's gonna put you on a plane, and when that's not who you're playing with, like when the reality of you know actually being with a another human who has his, you know, all of the things, it it can be challenging to like really square those pieces together.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think 50 Shades of Gray did a lot for the community. It you know, made BDSM like a household name. Like my mom, she she read, you know, 50 Shades of Gray. So she knows what safe words are and hard and soft limits are. But I I think a lot of people do like they need to progress from that and not, you know, live in that that fantasy. So it's like a great introduction. You know, it can, you know, get your juices flowing and your curiosity flowing. But yeah, it's it's making it real life and every day. And, you know, what do you do when your partner doesn't, you know, own their own company with their own helicopter and you know, make a billion dollars is like, yeah, how do you and you have bills to pay, how do you, how do you stay in your role? How do you stay, you know, in that Domsa mindset? And so it can be a real struggle for for people.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Now that we brought it up, I'm curious, like how how do you start to how do you support yourself in staying in that in that mindset?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Well, so for me personally, so I'm a a submissive, and so I have some things like like rituals for myself. So, you know, I have my my morning routine, so that you know, looks like meditation and journaling and different submissive mantras, um, and just making sure I'm nourishing my body and just really staying in communication with my dom too. And another thing that like keeps me in that mindset and and him in that mindset too is using our, we call them, you know, the honoritics with each other. So, you know, for us, that's you know, daddy, or you know, sometimes I'll call him sir, even our master. And so using those terms can really help you stay in that mindset too. But but definitely, you know, the self-care just really, really helps, but especially the meditation and the journaling too.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

I think it's really, you know, for some people hearing that, that could be surprising how much of your own self-care you need to do to be able to um surrender and and submit and and stay in that role.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Um yeah, because it's just like any relationship, like it takes work. You can't just say, well, we're in a BDSM relationship now. And even if it's great from the beginning, like there's no guarantee it's gonna stay that way. Things come up from time to time, and so you constantly have to adapt and you know, keep up those self-care rituals. So, you know, and and it it gets hard, you know. But I I have noticed like when I'm feeling like really just out of alignment, you know, with either my relationship or myself as a submissive, like I I can look back and be like. Oh well, I haven't been journaling, I haven't been meditating. I, you know, or you know, if it's our relationship, it's like, okay, well, we haven't been doing regular scenes lately, and you know, that's why. And so really getting back to those core basics and those especially those things that we were really excited to do when we first discovered BDSM, you know, is is to just like go back to those basics.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

And how how does having a family weave into this, into the relationship?

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Well, I would say like people think and worry more than they need to. Like we think, oh my gosh, we're gonna, we're gonna damage our kids, and you know, they're gonna have to go to counseling, and and but the the opposite of is true. And I've talked to, you know, therapists about this, that as long as they see that, you know, the the parents are happy, that's all that matters. And obviously, we don't expose them to kink, we don't expose them to BDSM, but they see two parents that are very much in love and respectful of each other and polite to each other. And, you know, we try our best to stay quiet. You know, we've done some things, some practical things, like uh, you know, soundproofing our rooms and just, you know, making sure that, you know, if we are gonna have a loud scene, then maybe that's a night that they stay at the babysitter's house. But um we we try our best to just not expose them. But, you know, I always say, heaven forbid, just heaven forbid, like they found out that you practiced BDSM or they walked in on you. Like all that takes is a really quick explanation. And I've heard from many therapists say it is more damaging for your children to walk into your room and see you fighting than to walk into your room and see you having sex. Like, so I think, you know, obviously, like I said, take all the precautions you can, but don't worry about it. Like, as long as you're happy and your kids see that, you know, that's all that matters.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

I love that. Um, you know, really putting that healthy, loving relationship in front of versus the fear of all of the other pieces that you're going to see. And it makes perfect sense that um that seeing you fighting is more damaging than seeing you in in a lovemaking or um consensual experience together. I'm gonna shift things up a little bit and ask a little bit more about um about the website and your work. And um I know that you've got a lot of different offerings, and I'm curious in terms of, you know, if somebody is really starting out, um, they're starting out, let's assume they're starting out, they've, you know, they're they're single. Um, what are some of the pieces like what are some of the things that you suggest to them as a as a basic foundation?

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Um yeah, so on our website we have a whole lot. So we have blog articles, you know, I have a podcast too. And so there's, you know, podcast episodes, we have the YouTube channel, so they can check that out too. But just really start with those foundational things. You know, a lot of times people want to take off running and they they buy all the gear and everything and they, you know, want to go to a dungeon right away, but it's like start with the education first, you know, before you start putting this into practice, you know, educate yourself on the terms and things like that. So on the website, we have, you know, just a ton of free resources and different articles. So, you know, just peruse the things that that interest you. And when you are ready to start maybe finding a partner, you know, we have a whole course on that, you know, or if you already have a partner but you kind of want to introduce BDSM and Kink to them, we have a whole course on that too. So, you know, it's kind of like a buffet where you can just kind of pick and choose where you want to go, kind of choose your own adventure type of thing. But um, the other thing I would recommend to people is just meeting other people in the lifestyle because, you know, community is so important. We need each other. I mean, me and you, you know, Deborah right now are having a conversation about, you know, sex and BDSM. And and that's what makes everything in life just so much better is having someone else to talk to about these things, um, especially about such taboo topics that you can't talk to anyone else about. So try to meet other people in the lifestyle, find, you know, groups and events and and just focus on on making friends too. But um, yeah, and then when you're ready for more advanced things or you need one-to-one coaching, we offer that too.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

I love what you were saying about community because I think that's such an important piece. Um, I learned so many different things from people kind of coming up. And, you know, back in the day when when I was starting out, um, we found each other through ads in the back of the paper, like no internet. Um, so I really love how much more availability there is and how much more there is in terms of community and having community support. And I want to say, you know, another thing about community is that it can help when somebody is newer to get to understand like what's safe, who's safe, and it can be a really wonderful way to uh be supported in finding your way into what can seem like a bit of an overwhelming adventure.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Yeah, because there are unfortunately, you know, predators out there, scammers out there. And so when you are learning about these things, you know, you have that, you know, we call it like sub-frenzy or dom frenzy where you just learn so much and you want to, you know, just absorb everything, you want to take it all in. And so if you meet someone online who's, you know, not a good person, they're gonna take advantage of that. And I've heard horror stories of, you know, women getting involved with men who seem like, you know, a Christian gray and has it all together, and you know, they always say, Well, I'm I'm an experienced dominant. So they're always experienced and they they need to tell you that right off the bat that they're experienced, and you know, that they're going to, you know, take them under their wing and mentor them. And then it just becomes this huge abusive, you know, exploitive sexual relationship where, you know, they're doing a lot of things that they're not even consenting to, or just people getting caught up with, you know, scammers where people try to take their money and things like that. So it's always good. That's why I say start with education. So you know what a healthy dynamic looks like first. So when you see in all these other red flags that may pop up, like you'll know them for what they are. But like you said, with community, it's good to have friends that you can bounce things off of and be like, hey, this person's messaging me and something seems off. Can I, you know, get your opinion on what you think?

SPEAKER_01 31:24

And I I'm curious, I'd love to go back and and so what would you say are some of the hallmarks of a healthy relationship, BDSM style relationship?

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Mm-hmm. So communication always, you know. So if one person is constantly saying, you know, you don't need to ask questions, you just need to trust me. And, you know, if you're asking questions, that means you're you're not being obedient, or you know, it it should be the opposite. You know, the other person should be encouraging questions and, you know, constantly saying, is this okay for you? Do you want more? Do you want less? So even in our dynamic, even though we've, you know, been together for you know decades, that, you know, once a week on Sunday nights, you know, before you know my husband goes to work, that we sit down and we have a weekly check-in where we talk about, you know, what has been going good this last week, what would we want to see more of, what things we want to change, what are our goals for the week, you know, in terms of our scenes, like what kind of scenes do we want to do this week? Is there anything we want to incorporate? So, you know, just all that communication is really what's going to establish that that healthy dynamic in in mutual respect to and feeling safe. So even though we're doing like a lot of crazy things that seem really unsafe and risky and taboo, there is that sense of safety still that you trust the other person. So even if it is just like a sexual dynamic that maybe you just hook up on the weekends, you still want to be able to, you know, at the end of the day, say that you you trust this person.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

And I I just want to underscore the idea. I mean, I think it's fabulous that you guys have a weekly check-in. Um, sounds like it's on the calendar. And that you can be honest about what's actually happening for for each of you in the dynamic. Um and you know, having that space that is, I don't know if you would consider that outside of your roles or like a free free speech zone or so.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

We kind of do sometimes, so even during the week, you know, we I do kind of have the the military thing where I'm like, you know, can I have permission to speak freely, sir? You know, kind of a thing, you know, if something really comes up. But even when our we're having our check-ins, you know, we're still a dom and sub. So I still try to be respectful when I talk to him. And, you know, but sometimes, you know, like let's say we had a really bad week about something or something was really stressful, you know, I may be upset when I'm talking, you know, but I still try to be respectful about it. You know, just because you're, you know, a submissive or a Dom, it doesn't mean you don't have emotions. It's just learning to better, you know, control them and express them.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

And do you feel like um, I mean, I know you can't speak for him, but I'm I'm kind of curious uh what you would say, what you think he might say, or a Dom in general might say about like what is the uh some of the challenges of being, you know, being in charge, how holding the space for so long.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Yeah, so I know this is, you know, he's expressed this as true for him, but it, you know, it's true for a lot of DOMs, you know, and a Dom can be a man or a woman or non-binary, so so gender doesn't matter in terms of these these roles. But usually where DOMs, you know, do struggle with is it is a huge responsibility to um, you know, in a lot of ways they they have a lot of they wear a lot of hats, you know, because not only are they taking in charge in the bedroom and kind of planning things, you know, if there's an outside dynamic, then you know, they're almost kind of like in this life coach role of kind of controlling and micromanaging things. And and it can it can be kind of exhausting, but you know, they do get a lot out of it. And a lot of people who are DOMs, they they thrive on that. They want the control. And so that's why they they get into those roles. And so it's not so much as a burden, but it is just like a a lot of work and a lot of planning and and and checking to make sure their submissive is, you know, doing good, is in a good head space, and that they're happy and getting their needs and wants fulfilled too. Um, so yeah, it does it does take a lot of work on their part.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

I'm wondering, um, if you were to say, you know, this from from from the submissive point of view, looking at your Dom, um what would you say is how do you support him? How do you um support him in being his best? I, you know, I have ideas about how he supports you in being your best, but I'm curious how you support him in being his best self.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Well, so this is going to be different for every dominant because every dominant, you know, has different needs and wants. But for mine, he really thrives on um, you know, knowing that he is making me happy. So just being, you know, grateful for what he does and thanking him for what he does, you know, even if it's just, you know, that we we did a really fun, kinky scene over the weekend, just, you know, making sure he knows how much I liked it, how appreciative of it I am, and and just how thankful I am that he's in my life. And and he does like to be in that kind of like caregiver parental role. So letting him, you know, take the lead in my life and you know, help me out. And instead of being this independent woman who can do it all, you know, because even though I I can take care of myself and do it all, you know, letting him to have that control can, you know, I know gives him a lot of fulfillment too, that he's that he's helping me, that he's taking care of me and my needs.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

So letting him take care of you in those places and really expressing appreciation and gratitude and knowing, you know, letting him know that as he cherishes you, you cherish him.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

And then obviously there's you know, the kinky sacks, you know, why else would we be doing this? You know, you know, so those are always the perks too. But you know, um, but yeah, so I mean, I always say like the more like we we make BDSM and Dom sub relationships complex, like we forget how just like at the end of the day, like it's just fun to have kinky sacks, you know. So, you know, there's always that aspect of it too.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

I love that. Thank you so much for bringing us back to that. Um, so in a minute, I'm gonna invite you to share like if there was one thing that you wanted people to get out of our conversation, what that might be. But first I want to give people a way to support the Better Sex Podcast. Because, you know, sex is a really complex subject, and it can, as we were talking about, make or break a relationship. And most of us don't grow up in an environment where talking about sex is welcome. And so that's why I'm offering sexual mastery breakthrough session, a personalized one-on-one experience for a more satisfying sex life. Because let's face it, a podcast is not enough. You have to have practice. And if you're ready for tools and tips and exercises that you can learn, go to the show notes and book a sexual mastery breakthrough session. Because you know, life is way too short for bad sex. So on that note, I'm so curious. Like, what would you like people to walk away from our conversation with?

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Well, if you know, you're listening to this and this sounds interesting to you, or even just, you know, you're curious about it, I just really encourage you to have an open mind and and to know that these types of relationships are just as healthy as any other dynamic. And, you know, hopefully listening to me, you can see like we're just normal people too. But to I would like people to know just how beneficial these types of relationships are. And, you know, even though there is, you know, all the kinky sex that's enjoyable, there there are so many benefits too, and just so much that you get out of it. And and it can really help a relationship. Like when we were first starting out and we had a therapist helping us, and you know, we let them know we were exploring BDSM and they got to see how much it helped our relationship. I remember our therapist said, like, I wish more people knew about this. And he said, like, I wish I could, you know, prescribe this to people because he saw how therapeutic it can really be. So I just really encourage people to just have an open mind to explore and just not take themselves seriously either, but just to, you know, like you said, life is too short. And so just really, you know, explore all the different types of dynamics out there and and see what feels best for you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

So I'd love if you would take a few minutes to talk a little bit about um about the summit that that that I discovered you on and all of the incredible projects and things that are available to people through your website.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Yeah. So the the summit was a lot of fun because it was me and my Dom and like 20 other BDSM educators. And I really just wanted a way to pull all these great minds together and just, you know, talk about BDSM in kink and Dom Sub Dynamics. And so it's actually still available if people want to get the replays. It's at DomSubdynamics.com. People can check it out there. So we we do the the summit every year. Um, and then um in a couple months, I'm gonna be running my my first um free four-day challenge. So that's gonna be really exciting to kind of help people jumpstart their Dom Sub Dynamic. We do um something called the Kink bundle in the fall that, you know, again, just brings all these other creators and their courses together in this really you know amazing low-cost bundle. I think like last year we had like over 30 educators. You know, my goal this year is to have 50. And it's just all packaged up so you know, you they can get it at one, you know, low price. But you know, I'm constantly just running just different events and and launches. So yeah, if anybody ever wants to learn more, you know, they can get on my newsletter at domsubliving.com slash sign up. But um the the summit was a lot of fun. We we have a community too, so a lot of people, you know, really enjoyed participating in that community as part of the the summit.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Yeah, I just have to give a plug for the community is amazing. And you know, I've seen a lot of different summits, and um, I was really impressed with the way that you brought the community together and how active the community was and or is and supportive. And um, I think that was part of the VIP experience, but well worth it. Incredible uh support, really great educators, highly recommend that. Um super excited to have you here, Alessandra. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I just want to say, you know, is there anything that I might have missed, anything that you want the world to know?

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Um just that I hope people enjoyed this podcast episode and they, you know, go back and binge all your other podcasts. Um, I've been doing that myself, and so you have some really great episodes on there and just bringing more awareness about these types of topics because, you know, and unfortunately in the world we live in, with especially Facebook and Instagram, just like banning all of us left and right and not even being able to, you know, talk about words like BDSM online. You know, we need, you know, podcasts like these, you know, more than ever. Beautiful. Thank you. Wow, I love this conversation with Deborah. It's so rare to find someone who's willing to talk about BDSM with this much honesty and depth without sensationalizing it, but just making it normal. If you want to hear more of her work, definitely check out the Better Sex Podcast or go to Deborah Kat.com. That's Kat with a K. I'll link everything for Deborah in the description. So go show her some love because she is creating some of the most thoughtful and open conversations about intimacy and relationships. And if you're ready for more honest and wrong conversations about BDSM and Kink, you know where to find me. And until next time, keep embracing your power and pleasure through doing some movement.